Twin Turbo Valuations
- Luigi
- 15-PSI
- Posts: 1766
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:31 pm
- Location: South Florida
- Contact:
Twin Turbo Valuations
Folks,
I've been reading through some Collector Car magazines and have been seeing car values adjust with the downturn of the economy some 20%, particularly cars which rose to heights in the recent past like Hemi-Cuda's. Anyone have any perspective as to how this has or is affecting B2K values? No doubt we all want to buy at the low and sell at a high. I'm not thinking of selling but just thought I would ask what you guys are seeing in the market.
-Luigi
I've been reading through some Collector Car magazines and have been seeing car values adjust with the downturn of the economy some 20%, particularly cars which rose to heights in the recent past like Hemi-Cuda's. Anyone have any perspective as to how this has or is affecting B2K values? No doubt we all want to buy at the low and sell at a high. I'm not thinking of selling but just thought I would ask what you guys are seeing in the market.
-Luigi
- BIGJOHN
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 2811
- Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:24 pm
- Location: Ledyard, CT.
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
DRIVE IT AND ENJOY IT!
THE VALUE WILL COME BACK UP!
THE VALUE WILL COME BACK UP!
-
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:05 pm
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
The latest issue of the Corvette Market dogged Callaway....
- Evil Twin
- 8-PSI
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:40 am
- Location: West Palm Beach
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
I agree with BIG JOHN.......Drive it and just enjoy them for all their worth.
Life is too short, you only live once, buy it, drive it, enjoy it !!!
Life is too short, you only live once, buy it, drive it, enjoy it !!!
- MagicDragon
- 7-PSI
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:23 pm
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
Thats what I do! Just yesterday I drove her to work and HAD to remove the targa top for the drive home. I very rarely ( maybe 10 times in 9 years) remove the top and yesterday was so sweet I had to. Having the top off and the windows down was a GREAT change from the norm and it added at least 100 HP for the drive home. And damn I look good in that Callaway!!
p.s. While I had the top off I prepped the weather stripping with some silicone grease to keep them nice and soft.
p.s. While I had the top off I prepped the weather stripping with some silicone grease to keep them nice and soft.
2011 Callaway Supercharged 427 Grand Sport
Callaway built C5R block, ultra lightweight forged crank, billet rods, forged pistons, Callaway cam and valvetrain, 4LT, Mag ride, severe duty RPM transmission 668 brake HP 632 torque
Callaway built C5R block, ultra lightweight forged crank, billet rods, forged pistons, Callaway cam and valvetrain, 4LT, Mag ride, severe duty RPM transmission 668 brake HP 632 torque
-
- 1-PSI
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:43 pm
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
I too was very surprised at Corvette Markets comment towards the Callaway at auction and with Callways in general. It made it seem that they are maintenance nightmares. They really are not the best source of information as they also get things wrong with the vintage Corvette market too. One example is they do not try to educate new buyers, instead they just say a car is numbers matching so the newbie thinks he is getting an original motored car only to find out after the fact that it was not the case. This is one big advantage that Callways has as they are low production vehicles that are documented. I own a 69 L88 and a 67 435 conv. and those cars that are the real thing with no stories are still bringing record $ and the L88s are still rising even in this economy.
The TT cars have been flat for a long time and I think that they have a lot of things going for it as far as appreciation and a couple of negatives. The positives, low production, high hp for the era, documented. The negatives parts availability, simplicity of maintaining the vehicle and unlike the 60s cars which had a performance drop off in the 70s ever since the 80s hp has been going up and that may hurt Callways future price appreciation. Enjoy your cars they are cool
The TT cars have been flat for a long time and I think that they have a lot of things going for it as far as appreciation and a couple of negatives. The positives, low production, high hp for the era, documented. The negatives parts availability, simplicity of maintaining the vehicle and unlike the 60s cars which had a performance drop off in the 70s ever since the 80s hp has been going up and that may hurt Callways future price appreciation. Enjoy your cars they are cool
- Luigi
- 15-PSI
- Posts: 1766
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:31 pm
- Location: South Florida
- Contact:
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
I definitely enjoy driving mine and have no thoughts of selling. I was just bring up the subject since it is a topic that many folks talk about. Part of the purpose of the COG was to educate the public about these cars and though we have a long ways to go, we have come very far in the last 6 years. Their limited production numbers easily lends itself to rumours and misconceptions even with some of the "supposedly informed of the media". That happens all the time and no just with the Twin Turbo cars but also with the current C6 platform.
-Luigi
-Luigi
- jonstr
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 1043
- Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:10 am
- Location: Arizona
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
The trend I've seen doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. Those cars that are limited production increase in value faster. If that "limited production" includes the engine (e.g. Steve's L88 and 427/435 cars), then that appreciation tends to go even faster, probably because that's desired in a sports car (as opposed to a 'rare' paint color, which is probably rare because few people liked it originally ).
All C4s are just starting to come into their own, but of the C4s there are only a handful of 'limited production' models. The Callaway (of course), ZR1, and the LT-4 cars come to mind as about the only limited production C4s with special engines. Of course you can also include the Pace Cars, anniversary editions, CEs, GSs and maybe others, but they often don't include engine changes (some or all of the CEs and GSs may also be LT-4 cars, I don't recall). I think these will increase in value also, but not as fast as the 'engine' cars.
But it all depends on the audience. Many collectors are hung up on "factory original", which doesn't include things like the Aerobody, 100+, or Kool-off options. Those weren't part of the "B2K" option from Chevrolet, so many collectors will shy away from them, while true Callaway fans love those options.
And that's where I think Callaway's have a little bit of an edge. Callaway has become a 'brand' unto itself, and they are clearly not thought of as a mere "tuner" of Corvettes. I think that reputation and history is helping 'Callaway option' values in the open market. One (poor) comparison I can think of is the fender flares that were allegedly included with all L88 cars. They weren't installed, they were delivered in boxes inside the car. Although the flares were included by Chevy back then, today no colletor wants those ON the car - even though many racers installed them right away - because they weren't part of the "factory installed' delivery. If those flares are on the car, then the value tends to be slightly lower because of the body modification (if they're in the boxes IN the car, then the value goes up). On the other hand, there's the Aerobody - clearly not part of the B2K option from Chevrolet and WAY more of a body modification than the L88 flares were), yet the Aerobody cars DO tend to bring a higher price than the non-Aero cars. I think that is due to the 'brand' Callaway.
As for the market fluctuations, it's going to happen as the economy fluctuates. Look at any short-term window of time and you can illustrate an "up" or a "down" trend in the prices. Plot them over the long haul, and I would be willing to bet that the trend is up. To me, buying low and selling high is a much longer term proposition. I've never been able to read the market well enough to make any gains in a car in a short period of time. On my L88, at one point I tried to get out of it too early and could not get more than $20K less than what I paid for it. I wisely decided to hold on for a few more years and ended up tripling my investment. One of the few good car decisions I've made in my life.
In the meantime, drive 'em.
All C4s are just starting to come into their own, but of the C4s there are only a handful of 'limited production' models. The Callaway (of course), ZR1, and the LT-4 cars come to mind as about the only limited production C4s with special engines. Of course you can also include the Pace Cars, anniversary editions, CEs, GSs and maybe others, but they often don't include engine changes (some or all of the CEs and GSs may also be LT-4 cars, I don't recall). I think these will increase in value also, but not as fast as the 'engine' cars.
But it all depends on the audience. Many collectors are hung up on "factory original", which doesn't include things like the Aerobody, 100+, or Kool-off options. Those weren't part of the "B2K" option from Chevrolet, so many collectors will shy away from them, while true Callaway fans love those options.
And that's where I think Callaway's have a little bit of an edge. Callaway has become a 'brand' unto itself, and they are clearly not thought of as a mere "tuner" of Corvettes. I think that reputation and history is helping 'Callaway option' values in the open market. One (poor) comparison I can think of is the fender flares that were allegedly included with all L88 cars. They weren't installed, they were delivered in boxes inside the car. Although the flares were included by Chevy back then, today no colletor wants those ON the car - even though many racers installed them right away - because they weren't part of the "factory installed' delivery. If those flares are on the car, then the value tends to be slightly lower because of the body modification (if they're in the boxes IN the car, then the value goes up). On the other hand, there's the Aerobody - clearly not part of the B2K option from Chevrolet and WAY more of a body modification than the L88 flares were), yet the Aerobody cars DO tend to bring a higher price than the non-Aero cars. I think that is due to the 'brand' Callaway.
As for the market fluctuations, it's going to happen as the economy fluctuates. Look at any short-term window of time and you can illustrate an "up" or a "down" trend in the prices. Plot them over the long haul, and I would be willing to bet that the trend is up. To me, buying low and selling high is a much longer term proposition. I've never been able to read the market well enough to make any gains in a car in a short period of time. On my L88, at one point I tried to get out of it too early and could not get more than $20K less than what I paid for it. I wisely decided to hold on for a few more years and ended up tripling my investment. One of the few good car decisions I've made in my life.
In the meantime, drive 'em.
Later,
Jonstr
Currently Callaway-less
Jonstr
Currently Callaway-less
-
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
You'll see a big,big surge in prices over the next 15-20 years and it will be the dealers, auctioneers, etc that will pump up the latest "collectable". These guys keep rolling forward every few years "new trends" whether in magazines, pre-auction hype, "expert opinons", etc....whether its an L88 or old Countach.
I saw it the last few years when these 'experts" tracked down a couple old Lamborghini's I owned. They came out of the woodwork and hunted me relentlessly. Once they cornered the market they started pumping up the rarity, collectability, valuations, etc....and they profit from pumping the story and selling out.
No different than a "story stock". And then they go to the next "automobile investment" trend.
Callaway's will see the same surge someday from the same characters because they are so rare, unique and were at the pinnacle of the super car wars of the 80s/early90s.....so enjoy 'em, drive'em and show'em off.......'cause your going to make a lot of money someday too!!
PS; Those characters will be coming for Speedsters first......let us know when they start to hunt you down Jonster!
I saw it the last few years when these 'experts" tracked down a couple old Lamborghini's I owned. They came out of the woodwork and hunted me relentlessly. Once they cornered the market they started pumping up the rarity, collectability, valuations, etc....and they profit from pumping the story and selling out.
No different than a "story stock". And then they go to the next "automobile investment" trend.
Callaway's will see the same surge someday from the same characters because they are so rare, unique and were at the pinnacle of the super car wars of the 80s/early90s.....so enjoy 'em, drive'em and show'em off.......'cause your going to make a lot of money someday too!!
PS; Those characters will be coming for Speedsters first......let us know when they start to hunt you down Jonster!
- Luigi
- 15-PSI
- Posts: 1766
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:31 pm
- Location: South Florida
- Contact:
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
I concur with Kinforward... I saw the same thing happen with Buick GNX's. I used to own two very low mileage GNX's back in 2000 and I kept being hounded (One had less than 50 miles on it)
The collectors started coming out of the wookwork before the prices exploded.
-Luigi
The collectors started coming out of the wookwork before the prices exploded.
-Luigi
-
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
MD......your post here was motivation for me to take the CTTC to work today......feels so good I'm taking the "for sale" off it and driving it a bunch in the months ahead....thanks!!MagicDragon wrote:Thats what I do! Just yesterday I drove her to work and HAD to remove the targa top for the drive home. I very rarely ( maybe 10 times in 9 years) remove the top and yesterday was so sweet I had to. Having the top off and the windows down was a GREAT change from the norm and it added at least 100 HP for the drive home. And damn I look good in that Callaway!!
p.s. While I had the top off I prepped the weather stripping with some silicone grease to keep them nice and soft.
- SurfnSun
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2332
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:44 pm
- Location: Central FL
- Contact:
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
Are you referring to the black one?
-
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
Candy apple redSurfnSun wrote:Are you referring to the black one?
- SurfnSun
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2332
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:44 pm
- Location: Central FL
- Contact:
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
kingforward wrote:Candy apple redSurfnSun wrote:Are you referring to the black one?
just take care of her for me
-
- 7-PSI
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:07 am
- Location: seattle washington
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
SurfnSun wrote:kingforward wrote:Candy apple redSurfnSun wrote:Are you referring to the black one?
just take care of her for me
I currently have both my B2Ks for sale.
1988...1,000,000.00 US
1990...1,000,000.00 US
lots of interest....
chris
- BIGJOHN
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 2811
- Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:24 pm
- Location: Ledyard, CT.
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
WHY SO CHEAP?
-
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 1337
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Miami, FL
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
If an L88 coupe that originally sold for $6000 in 1968 sells for $250,000 or 40X the original price in 2008 , does that mean a 1988 CTTC that sold originally for $60,000 could be worth 40X or $2.4 million in 2028?
I wish Lehman Bros was still around....I'm sure they would buy this story!
I wish Lehman Bros was still around....I'm sure they would buy this story!
-
- 1-PSI
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Massachusetts
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
Luigi,
The GNX was a car that the FBI bought fifty for use in the USA weren't they? I read a few articles on them . Jeff
The GNX was a car that the FBI bought fifty for use in the USA weren't they? I read a few articles on them . Jeff
2013 ZO6. Callaway Someday
- Luigi
- 15-PSI
- Posts: 1766
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:31 pm
- Location: South Florida
- Contact:
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
C6MAN,
That is correct.
-Luigi
That is correct.
-Luigi
-
- VIP COG Brother
- Posts: 3878
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:46 pm
- Location: Old Lyme, CT
- Contact:
Re: Twin Turbo Valuations
I knew the govt. bought Grand Nationals and Turbo Regals. The CT State Troopers also drove them, amongst other agencies GNX, did not know that, but would not say impossible,